When we preach holiness the question will always ultimately be thrown at us: “Do you believe that you live a holy and sinless life?”Holy people – other than by way of a God glorifying testimony – would be reluctant to ‘boast’ in such a way.
In his article ‘A plain account of Christian Perfection’ John Wesley describes the following question and answer discourse (forgive me for bringing the language up to date).
"Q. Can you show us just one example of Christian perfection? Where is the holy Christian?
A. To some who ask such a question one might reply, If I did know of such a Christian I wouldn’t tell you because you don’t ask out of love but like King Herod; you only seek the young child to kill it. However, let me say that there are many reasons why there should be so few, if any, clear examples. Such a person would become a sitting target for anyone wanting to criticise holiness – remember ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Am I holy? Do I live a sinless life? There have been times when I would have confidently said yes – there have been long periods in my Christian experience where the possibility of sin has seemed remote indeed. At the moment – I resist sin by God’s grace – I fight the devil and win – but the desire to sin is sometimes intense. I believe that when holiness comes our way – when we experience constant and full salvation that desire is eradicated and the temptations we receive rather than being temptations of the flesh are temptations to doubt or to fear – for the infrastructure of holiness would become the natural target of the enemy.
Indeed the very paragraph above may even be indicative of such an attack upon myself!
All great saints (and lowly ones) face such doubts, the way of holiness goes through the valley of the shadow of death and leads on daily basis ton Gethsemane and Calvary – as my quote from La Marechale said…
“Calvary is Calvary today. Christ wasn't crucified in the drawing-room. His was no easy chair business.”
"In the cross of Christ I glory,
Towering o’er the wrecks of time;
Towering o’er the wrecks of time;
All the light of sacred story
Gathers round its head sublime.
When the woes of life o’ertake me,
When the woes of life o’ertake me,
Hopes deceive, and fears annoy,
Never shall the cross forsake me,
Lo! it glows with peace and joy.
Love and prayers
Love and prayers
7 comments:
Andrew,
I really hope that you don't think I am persecuting you like Herod.
Hey, I like reading your blog.
I feel that your writing is great and I must say I have really enjoyed your last 2 blogs.
I like to hear from people who are open to sharing when they are struggling.
It shows humility and I like to see your vunerabilty.
I can respect a man who admits that he doesn't have all the right answers.
Although......
I do struggle to believe that "there have been long periods in my Christian experience where the possibility of sin has seemed remote indeed."
Do we really know what is a sin and what isn't?
Man, we have covered this I know but I still struggle to believe that anyone can think that they are without sin. Regardless of what Wesley says.
We have decided what are sins and what are not.
Even based on cultural relevance.
So could we ever be without sin if we don't really know what is a sin and what isn't?
Did Jesus ever give us a black and white answer on what is sin and what isn't? Black ad white answers to anything for that matter!
(besides Love God and Love each other)
I believe that the bible tells us to strive for holiness but it is a broken world and we are broken people who cannot ever achieve this.
OK, this is everyones cue to start quoting Paul and shooting me down!
This is my interpretation anyway.
OK, I have put on my armour and am ready for the barrage.
Teackles,
To add to the discussion about what defines sin and holiness, I note in your holiness manifesto on your blood and fire website a number of things -
- "as long as people go thirsty I will only drink water" - so then for you personally drinking anything apart from water is outside the rules of your holiness manifesto, therefore sinful for you
- "as long as people are hungry I will only eat the minimum required to keep healthy" - eating anything beyond this minimum is sinful for you.
- "...I will surrender all my spare time to God..." - so any time you stop and watch television for entertainment purposes you are sinning.
- "...practically I will wash only with cold water..." - so using hot water when you could have used cold in sinful for you.
As I read it these are your rules of holiness that you have set for yourself, and whilst these are admirable goals for your life, do you consider that anyone else not following your ideas to be outside the realms of holiness? I would hope that you don't think that, however for me this is an example of where is the line drawn as to what is sin and what isn't sin, therefore defining whether someone is living a life of complete holiness or not.
Anon - you are right.
God does not have a conclusive list of acts which he identifies as 'sins'. We sin when we go against his revealed will for our life - the will he has revealed to us individually.
My wife dyes her hair which I think is probably unecessary - her response to me when I challenge her is that God has not yet told her to stop!
If I break my self imposed holiness manifesto then I do not sin... but if I consider the points of that manifesto are the revealed will of God for my life then yes I do sin when I break those declarations.
Anyone who loves God with everything they have and loves their neighbour as themselves (something that cannot be done without Christ's grace and the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit)fulfills the law and cannot sin.
However no matter how much I love God and my neighbour today tomorrow God will demand more - God is always drawing us on - but as long as we are obedient to his revealed will for us we do not sin.
Love and prayers
A
To support your last statement in your reply Andrew (and I know its been quoted before)didn't William Booth say.
"Our consecration must keep pace with God's revelation."
God bless
Carol
Yup...I say that to our people all the time....God will reveal sin to you. If he doesn't reveal it, you can't really repent of it.
He is Good
Andrew C
My humble thoughts -
be careful not to equate just what you 'do' with 'whose and what' you are - if your heart and will is totally His - you will only do what is right. Be careful not to act like Pharisees who concentate on the law - rather trust His grace - be His and then you will Live as His.
granny
Teackles, you should not be so timid. This is not just "your interpretation". It is the interpretation of the great majority of Christians (both now and down through the ages) that we will continue to sin throughout this life while we grow in Christ. Yes we strive for holiness, but in our broken way, as you say, and we will continue to struggle with sin, because Sin - the brokenness of all creation - is still a problem.
Our depravity means that even our minds and our wills are compromised by the brokenness of the world. So my own decision to consecrate myself will never be perfect - this ability too is compromised by the fall. My ability to receive God's revelation - this is limited. Escaping this condition is not simply a matter of our choosing to submit to Christ; we are caught up in the drama of salvation-history, and the full consecration will be enabled when Christ has returned and brought to full fruition the redemption of all things.
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