How I have struggled with holiness!
I have testified to the blessing of a clean heart but nagging conviction encourages me to disbelieve.
I preach holiness, I teach holiness – I even have a webpage dedicated to its restoration. Without giving way to arrogance - I know none who has a better theoretical (or historical) knowledge of proper Wesleyan holiness.
Like the fallen priest plucked from the flames in Zechariah I stand before God constantly under accusation - never sure if my robes are still dirty or if they have been replaced with clean ones by a ministering angel, never sure if the turban on my head sparkles with the engraved confirmation ‘holiness unto the Lord’ or not.
Last week, following a meal with a close friend (someone who’s discernment and judgement I value) the challenge was put to me that the problem was one of belief – quite simply while I believe in the possibility of constant righteousness for others I see myself (with a kind of inverted pride) as being beyond (full) redemption.
Then this week I came across the following quote from Le Marechale. The quote is lifted from a War Cry article she wrote while in Prison in Switzerland.
'Jesus was crucified: Ever since that day, men have tried to find an easier way, but the easier ways fail. If you would win thousands who are without God, you must be ready to be crucified: your plans, your ideas, your likes and your inclinations. Things have changed, you say, there is liberty now. Is there? Go and live Christ's life, speak as He spoke, teach what He taught, denounce sin wherever you find it, and see if the enemy will not turn on you with all the fury of hell. Make no mistake, in spite of all the science and enlightenment of the nineteenth century, Calvary is Calvary today. Christ wasn't crucified in the drawing-room. His was no easy chair business. The world needs an army of men and women who can face Calvary, and that means coming down low. Do you shrink from being bated, misrepresented and spoken evil of? It is time you were crucified. Come down, my brother. Come down, my sister. There is such wonderful blessing and peace down here. Make haste and come down. Lose your life. You will never be happy, never be free, never be more than conquerors, until you do.'
It is both a crisis of faith and a crisis of sacrifice!
Yet in spite of my doubts I believe that God is drawing closer all the time – the blessing is within reach – God’s grace and patience is incomprehensible.
“In the past too unbelieving
Yet in spite of my doubts I believe that God is drawing closer all the time – the blessing is within reach – God’s grace and patience is incomprehensible.
“In the past too unbelieving
'Midst the tempest I have been,
And my heart has slowly trusted
What my eyes have never seen.
Blessed Jesus,
Teach me on thy arm to lean.”
Love and prayers
A
Love and prayers
A
14 comments:
Andrew,
I believe you are showing signs of being human that's all.
Your life is at a crossroads at the moment. Right?
It is human to feel doubt at times of upheaval.
I say accept it and know that your doubts are a normal part of faith.
Does having knowledge about one mans's view of who God is really make you without doubts about your own faith? A man who lived many years ago in a different age, Wesley.
"Proper Wesleyan Holiness"
What does this mean?
Wesley is gospel?
Wesley has the definitive answer on holiness?
I think that your doubts are a useful display of your faith in God.
I am not sure it is healthy to think we know all there is to know about holiness or any part of faith.
Of course if we think we are an authority on something then lack of faith in it is going to be a crisis.
If ones faith is built like a brick wall (IE: concrete)
and you are unsure about a brick you then must wory about the whole wall right? Crisis mode?
Maybe, you need to accept that we don't know exactly what holiness means or if we can really live in constant righteousness at all?
Teackles
Teakles...thats sounds like "ah, don't worry about it mate...its not worth pressing on for, especially because we'll never get anywhere with it anyway".
Thats the sick message of this world you are preaching. Instead, we should consider the words of Paul (who's words are 'gospel'):
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates the body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverance for God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).
We all need a good dose of the fear of the Lord.
yours
Andrew C
"Thats the sick message of this world you are preaching."
What world is that Andrew?
You seem to have me pegged as something right?
Pegged as what?
Please don't worry about offendeing me....but I think you are dying to tell me what you think.
Do you think that I am preaching a word that is evil or from Satan?
"Teakles...thats sounds like "ah, don't worry about it mate...its not worth pressing on for, especially because we'll never get anywhere with it anyway"."
That's putting words in my mouth Andrew. I have never said that Andrew should not strive for it or not worry about it.
I am just trying to encourage him that it is ok to have doubts.
I think it is normal and healthy.
Andrew,
I am sure we have talked about this already on a blog somewhere but I never really got an answer.
Do you believe that you live a holy and sinless life?
I look forward to your answers.
Teackles.
Hi Teakles,
firstly, I don't really know who you are and don't really remember any conversation with you before. I'm sure Teakles isn't your real name.
I was saying, quite clearly I thought, that your comment was fully of worldy compromise. By worldly, I meant 'of the world'.
With regards to holiness, I believe that it is possible to live without sin because the bible tells me I can through Jesus and by the sanctifying power of the Spirit. The road to that is a life of submission and obedience to the cross and to the Spirit which involves a continued dying to self, which is the essense of the Christian struggle for holiness.
I am no longer, by nature, a sinner. I am a holy one, a child of God who still is capable of sin, but living under a Saviour who is more than able to keep me from sin. The Spirit can, and does deal with the inclinations to sin that remain in our lives.
The fact that I ocassionally fail is not a testimony against the fact that the Spirit is not able to keep, but more the fact that I am not yet, and will not be this side of glory, what I should be. But we press on because:
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates the body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverance for God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).
yours
Andrew C
Andrew, as promised here is the quote that we discussed in the light of La Marachel's wisdom. I thought your other readers might also be interested in what it suggests.
"There is a sense in which every Christian disciple is called upon to die, not physically (though many have suffered for their faith in this way) but to die to self and self-centred hopes. In one of his printed sermons Colin Morris argues that this can mean only the surrender of the human will. All other gifts are from God anyway, and when we sacrifice them we give him back what is his. But according to the rules he himself has made, God has no sovereign right over the human will. Only we can dispose of that. So to offer that voluntarily to Christ and accept his Lordship over it is the ultimate sacrifice; it means in the deepest sense, dying for him. It is to this, as Christians, that we are called."
(Soldiers Armoury 31st Oct 1974)
God bless
Carol
i'm sure that your vulnerability in this blog was not a desire for an argument.
i appreciate what you have to say-- i understand it. i've basically been going through the exact same battle for the last week or so.
Lord, give Andrew wisdom, please. speak to him clearly.
Carol,
What a great quote from our past! Thanks for sharing it.
Teackles is a pretty common surname in some parts of Britian.
CAC,
you said,
"I am not yet, and will not be this side of glory, what I should be."
So you are not Holy and sinless right now and you don't think you will ever be.
Right?
Surely sin is a relative thing isn't it.
What you say is a sin I might not.
Who holds the monopoly on what a sin is?
If you are infact without sin but are committing a sin that I think is a sin are you still holy?
EG: Can you be sinless and overweight at the same time?
Many people believe that gluttony is a very big sin.
Can I be holy but be divorced?
Many people believe that if I am sleeping with my new wife I am commiting adultry daily.
To them I cannot be holy.
Some sins have come and gone. They are prone to cultural relevance. (I know how much you hate that Andrew!)
Does any of this jog your memory of me yet?
Hey,
I tried to comment on your blog but it wouldn't let me. Why?
Teackles.
Hi, apologies again to Andrew for hogging his bloggin!
1. In heaven is will be 100% complete. Of course I will not be sinlessly perfect in this earth, but sinless perfection and Christian perfection are two different things.
2. I am not sinning right now, I am not aware of sinning today. I believe that I can be without sin tomorrow. The power of God is at work in me.
3. It doesn't matter what you think sin is. Its what God views as sin that matters. Our idea of sin and God's idea of sin don't often match...thats why there is so much sin in the church!
4. With regards to divorce, the biblical reasons given for divorce are a)maritual unfaithfulness b)an unbelieving partner not wishing to remain married to a beliver. I don't expect that God would have people remain in an abusive relationship either...this would be a severe transgression of marriage vows.
We are free to marry if our partner has committed adultery against us or if our unbelieving partner leaves us. Otherwise, the scripture says that we are in an adulterous relationship.
I don't know the circumstances of your divorce, so I cannot comment.
5. Being overweight isn't necessarily a sign of gluttony, which is of course a sin. There are many reasons as to why people can be overweight. Of course, we should take care of our bodies.
6. I disagree that sins come and go. God hasn't changed his view on sin. What the church or world sees as sin may have changed, but God hasn't changed his mind.
7. I don't hate cultural relevance, I believe that prophetic relevance trumps cultural relevance and that we should be culturally relevant to the extent that it serves the Kingdom. I am sure I said that in whatever conversation there was about cultural relevance.
8. I don't know why you haven't been able to comment on my blog. The only restrictions are against unregisterd people.
:o)
grace
Andrew C
cool thanks CAC,
I will register myself then I guess.
Firstly, I am not divorced, it was just hypotheical.
I am happily married.
"3. It doesn't matter what you think sin is. Its what God views as sin that matters. Our idea of sin and God's idea of sin don't often match...thats why there is so much sin in the church!"
How can it not matter what you think a sin is?
IF you don't know what a sin is then you can't tell us that you are not sinning Andrew?
Unless of course you know what God is thinking.
So there is so much sin in the church because the church doesn't know what God thinks sin is but you do right?
Teackles,
Well CAC,
Andrew, are you there?
No, I'm not here, I've been in Wales :o)
You have an arguementative spirit brother...maybe you should pray that through.
The point I was making is that the church have deemed some things not to be sin which the Lord has said in scripture is sin. (eg homosexuality, same sex union, sex before marriage, drunkenness etc etc)
The point is its what the Lord deems as sin, not what we deem to be sinful or not.
grace
Andrew C
Hi CAC,
An argumentive nature that needs to be cured?
Maybe, God is directing me to challenge you about this stuff.
Perhaps he is trying to tell you something you need to pray about.
Could that be possible?
Also, could you answer my questions?
I believe that God is calling me to search for the truth and if that means disagreeing with you then I am fine with that.
Did Jesus give us all the answers to life in a straight forward manner?
Or did he speak in parables that gave his followers reason to wrestle with his words and discuss them?
Argumentative or searching spirit?
I always find it interesting when christians give airtime to sins that they would never strugle with.
Easy sins to target!
The homosexual issue is one that many christians love to bang on about because it is safe for 90% of us..not a sin we are likely to fall into....and Salvos love bring out the drinking issue too because for most of us it is not a sin we have to struggle with.
I don't think that my challenges are argumentative, I am just trying to find the truth.
I look forward to some answers from my last comment.
Teackles,
How interesting.
No one has tried to answer my questions.
Why?
Teackles
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